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Merge pull request #142 from jellyfin/client-update
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Sync clients page with jellyfin-next
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@nielsvanvelzen
nielsvanvelzen authored Oct 2, 2022
2 parents c772d72 + 6d82278 commit c7b168a
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32 changes: 12 additions & 20 deletions content/clients/_index.md
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</div>
<a href="https://github.com/jellyfin/jellyfin-kodi" class="button button__accent button__card">Go to GitHub</a>
</div>
<div class="card">
<!-- <div class="card">
<img src="/images/clients/xbox.svg"/>
<div class="bannerbox">
<p class="banner">Xbox One</p>
</div>
<p class="button button__accent button__card__disabled">Coming Soon</a>
<!--<a href="https://www.microsoft.com/store/apps/9P2DRTG62QF8" class="button button__accent button__card">Go to Microsoft Store</a>-->
</div>
<div class="card">
<a href="https://www.microsoft.com/store/apps/9P2DRTG62QF8" class="button button__accent button__card">Go to Microsoft Store</a>
</div> -->
<!-- <div class="card">
<img src="/images/clients/playstation-4.svg"/>
<div class="bannerbox">
<p class="banner">PlayStation 4</p>
</div>
<p>Available on Your<br>PlayStation Browser</p>
</div>
</div> -->
<div class="card">
<img src="/images/clients/infuse.svg"/>
<div class="bannerbox">
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</div>
<a href="https://apps.apple.com/app/id1136220934?mt=8" class="button button__accent button__card">Go to App Store</a>
</div>
<div class="card">
<!-- <div class="card">
<img src="/images/clients/mrmc.svg"/>
<div class="bannerbox">
<p class="banner">MrMC</p>
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<a href="https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=tv.mrmc.mrmc" class="button button__accent button__card">Go to Google Play</a>
<a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mrmc/id1059536415?mt=8" class="button button__accent button__card">Go to App Store</a>
<a href="https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01ENT3I1Q/ref=mas_pm_mrmc" class="button button__accent button__card">Go to Amazon Store</a>
</div>
</div> -->
<div class="card">
<img src="/images/clients/webos.svg"/>
<div class="bannerbox">
<p class="banner">LG webOS</p>
</div>
<a class="button button__accent button__card" href="https://us.lgappstv.com/main/tvapp/detail?appId=1030579">webOS 6+</a>
<a class="button button__accent button__card" href="https://jellyfin.org/posts/webos-july2022/">Older Versions - Learn More</a>
<a class="button button__accent button__card" href="https://jellyfin.org/posts/webos-july2022/">Older Versions</a>
</div>
<div class="card">
<!-- <div class="card">
<img src="/images/clients/samsungtv.svg"/>
<div class="bannerbox">
<p class="banner">Samsung Tizen</p>
</div>
<p class="button button__accent button__card__disabled">Coming Soon</a>
</div>
</div> -->
<div class="card">
<img src="/images/clients/google-cast.svg"/>
<div class="bannerbox">
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</div>
<p>iPhones • Macs • iPads<br>Apple TV • Others</p>
</div>
<div class="card">
<img src="/images/clients/zidoo.svg">
<div class="bannerbox">
<p class="banner">Zidoo</p>
<p class="subbanner">3rd Party: AndroidTV</p>
</div>
<a href="https://github.com/Andy2244/jellyfin-androidtv-zidoo" class="button button__accent button__card">Go to GitHub</a>
</div>
</div>

<h2>Mobile</h2>
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</div>
<a href="https://apps.apple.com/app/id1136220934?mt=8" class="button button__accent button__card">Go to App Store</a>
</div>
<div class="card">
<!-- <div class="card">
<img src="/images/clients/mrmc.svg"/>
<div class="bannerbox">
<p class="banner">MrMC</p>
<p class="subbanner">3rd Party: Android + iOS</p>
</div>
<a href="https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=tv.mrmc.mrmc" class="button button__accent button__card">Go to Google Play</a>
<a href="https://apps.apple.com/app/mrmc-touch/id1062986407" class="button button__accent button__card">Go to App Store</a>
</div>
</div> -->
<div class="card">
<img src="/images/clients/sailfin.svg"/>
<div class="bannerbox">
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18 changes: 0 additions & 18 deletions static/images/clients/zidoo.svg
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9 comments on commit c7b168a

@Andy2244
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Why did you remove the Zidoo client and why is it the only client not moved over to the new website?

@thornbill
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why is it the only client not moved over to the new website?

That is very clearly not the case. Several clients were removed for being inactive or not meeting the Requirements for Inclusion.

@Andy2244
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@Andy2244 Andy2244 commented on c7b168a Oct 3, 2022 •
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That is very clearly not the case.

So you took the time commenting on the second part of the question, while not actually answering the first part?

So, we already had the discussion and the result was to include the client. Yet the client was not carried over to the new website and now was also removed from the old?
Is this just a oversight or whats going on here?

@thornbill
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Ok I guess my reply wasn't clear enough somehow...

Does your client meet the Requirements for Inclusion? No. So it was removed along with any others that did not meet the requirements.

You made a good point in your original PR to add the Zidoo client that we really didn't have an official policy for what should be included, so we made one. Now that we have a policy we have enforced it here and on the new site.

@Andy2244
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@Andy2244 Andy2244 commented on c7b168a Oct 3, 2022 •
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@joshuaboniface @anthonylavado

So what is this yet again?
Why is the jellyfin-dev communication so poor and hostile towards new devs. ?

So for whatever silly reason i had to "fight" to get my fork included in the first place, after not getting any response for a month on my initial PR.
Than it was agreed on that it was ok to include the client.
Now the client was "silently" removed, without giving me any reason on why or even a chance to update/fix whatever was deemed as "not meeting" the new requirements?

So your policy is to remove any client, without even sending a quick message to the dev./maintainer on a possible removal or a reason why?
So not even giving the dev. the courtesy to fix any "new" requirement that may have changed?
Who is making those poor decisions?

Does your client meet the Requirements for Inclusion? No.

So yet again he does not even give me a direct answer on the reason or what exactly i did not meet?
Let alone trying to help me fix whatever is missing.

So instead of trying to keep clients available for users and actively helping devs. meeting the "new" requirements, we get just tossed in the trash..... what a lovely dev-community.

PS: So by essentially silently kicking me from the jellyfin page, thornbill is treating my fork/work as if it is some piracy Kodi client?
No communication whatsoever, no help, no good-will on explaining what needs to change, just showing outright disrespect and hostility for the work of others. This is even worse than getting removed from the Apple/Android store, those at least send you a notification and a reason.

So everyone in the Jellyfin-Dev community is ok with this? Just outright kick a client without even the slightest attempt to help explain and solve the underlying issue?

@Andy2244
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@Andy2244 Andy2244 commented on c7b168a Oct 4, 2022 •
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So does anyone have the decency to actually tell me which of those requirement i'm not meeting, that warranted outright kicking/removing my client?

**Requirements for Inclusion as a Recommended Client**

    The client must be a first-party client (meaning published and maintained by the Jellyfin team with source freely licensed and available in the [Jellyfin GitHub organization](https://github.com/jellyfin)).

cant meet

    The client must fill a significant void in the current first-party client offerings. Must be a high-quality client on a popular platform.

might meet?
(Zidoo is has the second largest community after ShieldTV on any of the main Android "Boxes" Hardware webpages.)
My client now fully integrates and supports the native Zidoo player and has extra fixes and improvements on top of the regular AndroidTV client.
Just tobe clear i did not even expected to get in the "Recommend" section.

**Requirements for Inclusion in All Clients**

    Any client meeting the following requirements:
        Must be aligned with the [Jellyfin Community Standards](http://next.jellyfin.org/docs/general/community-standards).
            In particular the client must NOT engage in, encourage, or facilitate piracy.

do meet

        Must adhere to the [Jellyfin Branding Guidelines](http://next.jellyfin.org/docs/general/contributing/branding) including usage of the Jellyfin name.
            This includes usage of the Jellyfin name or org.jellyfin namespace that could hinder the ability to publish an official client to a store in the future.

do meet

        Must include first rate support for Jellyfin servers. (i.e. Support for Jellyfin should be a primary function or at the same level of integration of any other supported services.)

do meet

        Must NOT be specific to or intended to promote a specific hosted Jellyfin server instance.

do meet

        Must have clear licensing and be void of any known issues related to attribution, copyright, or license violations.

do meet

So without pointing me to the specific reason, i don't see why i was kicked?

I suspect i got kicked, simply for some minor branding related issues, which where never clearly communicated to me in the first place and could have been easily fixed.
I did check other clients and my naming/branding is very similar and i can give examples of clients that use similar branding and where not outright kicked?
Yet, i can only speculate on the reason, given that thornbill wont give me a direct answer.

@cvium
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@cvium cvium commented on c7b168a Oct 4, 2022 •
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        Must adhere to the [Jellyfin Branding Guidelines](http://next.jellyfin.org/docs/general/contributing/branding) including usage of the Jellyfin name.
            This includes usage of the Jellyfin name or org.jellyfin namespace that could hinder the ability to publish an official client to a store in the future.

do meet

No. And were you not made aware back in July?

Only include the Jellyfin name in your project's name in a way that makes it clear you are not affiliated with the Jellyfin project, and to indicate compatibility with Jellyfin (For example Awesome Client for Jellyfin).

Your name seems to be Jellyfin Android TV Zidoo-Edition, which is not at all clear that it's an unofficial fork :)

I get your frustrations. Sometimes things move at a glacial pace and sometimes too quickly. We do not have the means to message every developer about potential changes (although we try to make an effort regarding API changes). You were made aware of the branding issues with your fork and where to look for "inclusion rules". Yet you act surprised.

@Andy2244
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@Andy2244 Andy2244 commented on c7b168a Oct 4, 2022 •
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No. And were you not made aware back in July?
Yet you act surprised.

Are you serious?
First off this page did not even exist back than.
Secondly he never said anything about the name, all he said was without any rebranding, to which i replied with:

I did actually add some zidoo branding to the install icon and use "zidoo-edition" for the apk and internal version names, just as a basic way to distinguish the official app from the fork.
I also disabled all debug, report settings, while also trying to follow the official releases.

Than after this he never bothered to clarify what needs to specifically be changed and that "Jellyfin Android TV Zidoo-Edition" might not be a acceptable name...
My guess was "Branding issues" was related to the used logos, not the name.....

So after he wrote the actual new guideline, he never clarified what needs to-be changed or gave me a heads-up that i will get removed, if i don't change xy. Let alone actually trying to help me meet those new requirements, instead i just get kicked out.
So you really asking why i "act surprised" ?

He also never even brought the name up as a reason in this conversation?
All i got was this vague reply again:

Ok I guess my reply wasn't clear enough somehow...

Does your client meet the [Requirements for Inclusion]? No.

So "somehow..." i should have been able to mind-read what specific reasoning he meant?
So how the heck should i know what he is talking about, if he actively avoids being specific?

The Guideline also just states:
Only include the Jellyfin name in your project's name in a way that makes it clear you are not affiliated with the Jellyfin project, and to indicate compatibility with Jellyfin (For example Awesome Client for Jellyfin).

So going by this Zidoo-Edition for Jellyfin (Android TV) would be fine, yet Jellyfin Android TV Zidoo-Edition is not?
How should anyone know what names are fine and which are not, there is literally only a single example.

Also you have to go to my github page to get the apk and there i clearly state this:
"Zidoo-Edition" is a unofficial community fork of the Jellyfin Android TV client, adapted to better run on [Zidoo media players] running Android 9+.

So you think its a reasonable approach to silently kick and remove a client, because the name is slightly off, which was never clearly communicated to me, all i got was "branding issue" several month ago, which could mean all kinds of things?

Here is how this should have gone...
A: "Hey we updated our guidelines and your client name should be renamed to xy or we cant list it."
B: "Ok, fine will do this."

We do not have the means to message every developer about potential changes

What is this logic, i never said anything along those lines. All i was asking for is the decency to inform me on the removal and hoped for a chance to stay on the list. If someone would have told me specifically that the name is a issue, i could have changed it easily, yet no one bothered pointing this out.
Is it so unreasonable to expect basic communication/help, instead of just being kicked out?

Those are his own words:
Of course we don't want to discourage forks or third-party apps in any way. In fact we frequently interact with the developers of such apps to help them implement new features, resolve bugs, or promote new releases.

As far as i can tell my client was the only active one removed.
So he couldn't be bothered to send a single github message to clear things up and instead just outright removed my client, without any clarification or deadline/warning?

So how does this translate to help or promote new releases ?

@anthonylavado
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Continuing discussion in a separate thread for better visibility: #143

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