Replies: 27 comments 69 replies
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Are there any improvements to Xaml coming soon, It's been years since Xaml saw substantial improvement in WinUI/UWP Space. As you can see in Maui Xaml it evolved to a place where we can do many things easily without much hassle like we have on WinUI. I.e Binding Extension and etc.. |
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Just for kicks, collecting all the links where people have asked Microsoft to implement a XAML designer/previewer, and Microsoft has continuously ignored the community: Xamarin Forms: .NET Maui: WinUI 3: Visual Studio Developer Community: I'm sure I missed a lot. Those are the ones I could readily find. So many requests by community members for a designer. And so much silence from Microsoft. |
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Yes, what they should be making up for now is missing uwp-equivalent features and performance fixes like maps, inkcanvas, validation, native aot support, etc. |
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Please (in my opinion) don't waste valuable resources on building a designer. Use those resources on WinUI framework instead.
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Data Grid in WinUI please, but not implemented as a grid but like Apple CollectionViews with it's own separated, configurable layouts allowing to do circular collections, piles of items etc. |
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@llothar - have you been following the work @michael-hawker and WCT team have been doing on the new Data Table CommunityToolkit/Labs-Windows#415 |
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A designer is a must have, it doesn't need to be fully drag and drop like in Forms and VB, however at very least it should be at the same capability as what Flutter, SwiftUI and Jetpack Compose have been allowing with live previews, which hot-reload is quite far from. As for those saying that there are no designers for Web, that is exactly one of the main use cases for Figma with export plugins, and there are several low-code products, inclusive from Microsoft as well. |
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It would be great if the team would address how they plan to improve how this project is being handled. We're years in at this point, there is still no Win UI 3 source available - perhaps the community can get bugs fixed and all the trivial things which seems to be too hard to get done? Further, the purge of 2.5k or whatever it was issues under the guise of "the team will now start triaging issues"... hasn't happened. There are pages of issues with no input from anyone working on this project. Is the team planning to start actively working on the backlog? It feels like development of Win UI has pretty much stopped. What little work that is done is always chasing the shiny new thing with no effort to fix long standing bugs and limitations (there are many). I'm pretty passionate about this platform but as I discussed here it appears that it's directionless. That may very well not be the case but I'm not the only person who holds that view. I'd also like some transparency as to how many people (FTE) are working on WinUI and how many FTE are developers. |
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What is being done to improve performance of WinUI?
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For C#, I don't think we will see any improvement in install size and performance until Native AOT is properly supported. It is easy to forget that C# UWP applications used .NET Native. |
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I am extremely curious about the inking experience and why it isn't on the roadmap. I would think this would be an important addition so that their own first party apps such as OneNote can start taking advantage of WinUI3. |
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inkcanvas is strongly dependent on coreWindow, so I'm afraid they'd have to reimplement the whole control from the bottom up, including the input event management and the rendering engine, if they were to be implemented in winui3. |
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Well a team of 3 full Gtk Developers could do this in a total of a few person-months. And i can't believe they only put Junior programmers on this project (but it feels like they do). |
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I second the first question. Would like to hear more about what exactly we will be able to recompile with changes and deploy in production, and how will PR's be handled. |
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For 3, your best bet is to have a dummy executable that launches your main executable. You would then place the application itself in a subdirectory. |
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When can we publish the app as a PublishSingleFile? I have been waiting since version 1.0 was released! |
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Related: microsoft/WindowsAppSDK#2597 |
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It is more than 5 months, since Windows App SDK version 1.3 has been released and since that day we are reporting, that PasswordBox is not working properly for touch displays. All information has been provided for reproduction of bug but still nothing. Everybody ignores this, but this is important for, i think, almost every app, which is used on touch display, because almost everywhere you have to be today signed in. In my case, this is release blocker, because customers could not sign in to their systems.
Issue: #6291 |
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Please take a look at bug report #8832 |
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The position of WinUI on the development landscape is still very uncertain in regard to Microsoft's approach to the new versions of their major products. Teams is a web app. The new Outlook is a web app, too. Both are sluggish, the UX doesn't match anything of Windows and Fluent, and the new Outlook is so bad that I don't even want to get started about it. Integration of Web apps with the Shell and the rest of the OS is sub-par and is going to stay like this for long. Try drag and drop from a web app to Explorer and enjoy the results. On one of the calls it was said that Microsoft are so big that departments like Teams and Office are like companies within the company. Still, this is a weak excuse for the lack of vision over UI / UX and platform. Worse, Office has been a huge department for long, but it also contributed a lot to Windows: rich edit, ribbon, to name a few. Now, WinUI looks like a garage project within Microsoft. We need reassurance. A good one. Not vague and lofty comments, but good proof of the company's vision. |
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I did. Now, I beg you tell me how is this any different than now, and how blending the web into Windows will help WinUI 3. |
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The new ChatGPT integration is also a Web app, running Edge docked. It looks like Windows Store, Calculator, Terminal and the new File Explorer are the only applications Microsoft has to show using WinUI, and the first two are actually still using UWP. |
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@mdtauk Then Microsoft should kill MAUI, if it is going to be all about Web and PWA, maybe then there are finally some resources left to help salvage what is still possible from WinUI. |
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MAUI is more about offering dot NET developers access to iOS and Android platforms, where Windows is also supported. Their skills and libraries can carry forward |
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We (Xelion) have invested heavily in WinUI/WindowsAppSDK, and I get fewer and fewer stability related issues from our customers. I'd rather see these random XAML-related issues disappear. :) |
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This is 100% an issue. Sometimes it is my own fault, but then it takes me about an hour to properly debug and find the issue. Usually by retracing my steps and reverting commits or w/e; it just takes a very long time . Better stacktraces and unhandled exception handling would be very much appreciated. |
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Pre-1.0, WinRT exception spam would seriously impact VS debug perf. The current lack of feedback, is now for me at least, worse. Combined with the ridiculous guessing games (" |
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Will we ever get a BlazorWebView for WinUI 3? There are so many reasons why a BlazorWebView should be available asap. Request dotnet/maui#7380 |
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It would be great to hear details of how the initiative closing old issues went and the benefits it has brought to the team/project. :) |
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You don't expect them to answer that honestly, do you? 🤣 Especially after the comment by knightmeister |
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Yeah, I'd really like to hear about this. Management must love the terminal downward velocity of their charts. I'm a big WinUI fan but I can't ignore the mismanagement of this project anymore so I will continue to be vocal until 1) they cancel it or 2) they mute me or 3) (unlikely) they make positive changes |
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Same here, I have long moved into Web, however due to the way they killed C++/CX, and all the investmestments we have done in UWP, I am also quite vocal about its direction, above all to make others new to the ecosystem aware not to buy into fake promises. |
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I just wanted to say thanks for all that you all do. I’m sure you don’t hear it enough. 😁 |
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Yes! Thank you to the maintainers and contributors if WinUI. |
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Any work planned on win2d? Looks like it is abandoned currently. It is currently the only managed interface to DWriteCore without building C++ wrappers. |
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You can use Direct2D in C# (like the last test sample with sprites I posted using SwapChainPanel) |
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Direct2D != DWriteCore |
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DWriteCore is DirectWrite, which is Direct2D (same code with DWriteCoreCreateFactory instead of DWriteCreateFactory, like an old test I had posted at How do I access DWriteCore from a C# managed application?) |
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I've seen your comments on msdn forums before when researching this, and my conclusion was that License of this dll and redistribution rights were unclear to me. The only "official" way to use this was compiling the publicly available |
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Indeed, not very clear. |
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Question about the new <Grid>
<SwapChainPanel/>
<ScrollViewer>
<StackPanel Width="..." Height="..."/>
</ScrollViewer>
</Grid> You could listen to the |
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The ScrollViewer and ScrollView offer the same kind of support in that regard. The ScrollViewer exposes a CompositionPropertySet through the Similarly, with the new ScrollView control, you can access its “Microsoft.UI.Composition.CompositionPropertySet ExpressionAnimationSources” read-only property set. It includes Vector2 properties called Extent, Viewport, Offset, Position, MinPosition, MaxPosition, and a Scalar called ZoomFactor. Again, they can be used as animation sources, but not as animation targets. |
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Thank you for taking time to respond. I see now that you can use those animation properties to integrate I was wondering if you can access those animation matrices somehow from shader code when using |
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I'm using WinUI 3 to build an app that uses multiple different user controls that utilize Direct3D to draw content. This is enabled by the fact that WinUI 3 provides the Unfortunately, bug #7924 was introduced after release 1.1 and to this day it prevents me from upgrading to any release after 1.1. It's not the first time I'm pointing this out in a community call discussion and there has been some progress but it is not yet fully resolved. I provided a full reproduction sample and I'm still hoping that someone squashes that bug soon. Would it be feasible to give it another go at resolving this bug? |
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If you are really blocked by this, I would consider switching from SwapChainPanel to using composition with CompositionDrawingSurface. I'm pretty sure you should be able to achieve the same functionality as in SwapChainPanel. |
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As far as I can understand from the GitHub issue. He seems to be invested a lot in SwapChainPanel, Therefore switching to CompositionDrawingSurface wouldn't make much sense. I hope, they'd fix the issue with SwapChainPanel within v1.5 timeframe since it's a crucial part of the framework for many devs including myself |
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In my opinion there are three major areas of basic functionality that need to be addressed: The first is having manually unwire all event handlers specified in the XAML. Not being able to use x:Bind and having to manually unhandle all events that are specified in the XAML code on a window closed so that the objects are properly garbage collected is a major undertaking and major step back from previous frameworks. The second issue is not having a proper transparent background for owner drawn windows with a proper pass thru when clicking on the transparent portion of the window. While it is possible to work around (Big thanks to @castorix for your swapchainpanel implementation. It was a big help in this area.) it's crazy to have to go through such an elaborate workaround to accomplish what was basic functionality for over a decade in WPF. The third major area is the complete lack of any helpers on the Window and AppWindow classes for some of the basic functionality that's existed for years. Having to constantly pinvoke into User32 to handle what feels like basic window functionality is a major difficultly. Need a min/max height/width well you need to hook into the message loop and handle the MINMAXINFO. Need to not have a window show up in the taskbar better call GetWindowLong and SetWindowLong to turn on the TOOLWINDOW style. etc. Under WPF these were simple properties on the Window, but after years of development on the Windows App SDK we still need to have manually handled all of these "basics" pieces of functionality in Win32 method calls. If you want developers to move off of WPF to WinUI and the Windows App SDK right now you should really focus on the making the existing functionality work and improving some of the basic functionality that those developers are familiar with. Otherwise, they simply continue with WPF and not migrate to the new platform. |
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Many things look like they were developed by ex-C and C++ developers that never shipped a Windows Forms or WPF application into production. |
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Dynamic Lighting! |
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Do you mean Segmented control in the WindowsCommunity package? Or is it a new control in Winui itself? |
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Yes it would be good to have some clearer language between what gets included in the default WinUI Toolbox, which would be in C++ code, and useable by any Windows dev - and stuff that is covered in the Toolkit and in C# which is not useable by non .NET devs. |
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@ghost1372 replied to your same question in the Labs repo: CommunityToolkit/Labs-Windows#392 (comment) These are items they're starting to plan to investigate (they just shipped 1.4, nothing for a new control would have been built yet). Like we've/they've done in the past for things like |
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Tnx ❤️🔥 |
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This community call was a complete waste of time!Question people prepared here in this thread or directly in the call have been completely ignored.
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Also seemed nobody of MS was prepared or had time. They rushed through their presentations. |
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So true. |
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I disagree. Compared to recent calls this was significantly more transparent and reassuring about the future. I imagine that the main team has been under significant pressure both externally and internally so even though there were some hiccups I still appreciate that these calls even exist at all. |
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nice update👌😅 |
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Thanks for your feedback! We know that there were many questions we didn't get to in the call, so we consolidated and answered all the questions we could here. Please check it out and let us know if you have any more thoughts! |
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The call was ended because "there are no more questions". Guys, you didn't look into this thread nor did you properly scan the live chat for questions. It's really disappointing that you call this a community call and then flat out ignore the community. |
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Understandable feedback - we know that we didn't have time to address the many questions both here and in the live comments during the call. We just posted a consolidated Q&A follow-up here - please check it out and let us know what you think! |
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Where was @ryandemopoulos , I miss him. |
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He's no longer on WinUI as announced in the last call. |
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oh... i did not know |
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I assume this thread will be closed down soon so I created #8927 Community calls and questions. |
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We'll unpin it soon but will leave it up for posterity for the time being. :) In the meantime I pinned the follow-up to the Q&A in a separate discussion post, but thanks for taking the initiative to do so yourself before I got to post ours! |
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How insanely out of touch are you guys with the general feeling from your involved developers (i.e. us)? What is the point of announcing the Community Call and soliciting feedback for it to be entirely ignored? I'm amazed that you guys ignore the top rated posts ITT. Clearly there is a large amount of dissatisfaction with the progress and management of WinUI - please affect positive change and address the numerous issues around management, communication, backlog, etc. What is the point of having issues enabled here if you're not going to use them? The backlog on Github is just going to get back to the state that it was. Can we at least get bi-directional updates in place so that when the team is looking at an issue in ADO we can see progress on GH? And I'm still waiting to hear how many people are actively working on this product.... |
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? They spent a significant amount of time talking about how they finally are linking their internal issues with Github. This is something we've been asking for for long time, and it sounds like there's finally some progress, both wrt cleanup up and cutting their losses, but also putting a process in place so that it'll hopefully not get to the bad state it was in. |
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Sorry if it was unclear in my post, I was talking specifically about them utilising them and responding to them, which was why I then went on to mention it would be great to get bidi updates from ADO. |
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Working on it! Some of this sentiment was asked previously and we did our best to answer it in this post. As for the new question I gleaned here- as of right now, as far as I know, we have mirroring in place so that when we work on a bug that gets filed from GitHub, the ADO state and release of the bug get reflected back so you know it's been resolved and when the fix is coming (as noted here). |
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Better than previous calls. Definitely, they have taken some positive steps, heard the community, restructured things. They have a direction now. |
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Actually I liked the session, if I have to point out something negative, it would be that widening the call into Windows Developer Community, with not all projects being WinUI related, kind of points out not having that much content for WinUI to fill in a hourly call, and since the team is responsible for all of those projects, raises again the question of how many of those FTEs are actually doing WinUI specific work. |
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On the other hand, it shows that there is quite a lot of internal teams using Windows App Sdk / WinUI, which is a good thing. Getting windows explorer to use WinUI is already quite a big step, as it will be run on billions of devices. |
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Most of them don't use WinUI, or are still stuck in UWP. |
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I'm pretty sure if explorer is still using UWP they will switsch soon. UWP is more dead then the peace process in the middle east. |
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Except WinUI tooling sucks, that is why most Microsoft teams keep using UWP, or have fully switched to Web widgets. Teams, Office, and now ChatGPT on Windows 11, all going into widgets. |
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and others
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Please join us for the September 2023 edition of the WinUI Community Call. This event will be live-streamed to YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m-EnEfG88g
Details
Date: Sept 27, 2023
Time: 16:00-17:00 UTC (9:00-10:00am Pacific)
Anyone and everyone is welcome - no pre-registration is required.
This will be an informal interactive live stream directly with members of our engineering team.
Format
The community call is a call among the WinUI team that is live-streamed onto YouTube. We present on new updates, share information, welcome guests, and answer your questions.
Agenda
Q&A Code of Conduct
Leave us your questions in the comments on this issue or live in the YouTube chat during the stream!
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All reactions